Information, Ignorance, and God Abuse

In our lives we all have defining moments that define what we will come to believe and what we will do with our lives. These moments put us into The Flow. These events whether we acknowledge it or not really define us. One of these defining moments for me was at a boxing tournament. The fighters from my club had cleared out and I was sitting on the side of the ring and two younger men were two my left. One was sitting on the ground against a pillar and the other was standing next to him talking. The first said, “Ya, I know what you’re saying man.” The second man continued, “When all the things in the Qur’an happen, everyone will realize we were right.” This did not convert me to Islam but it was shocking to me because of how they said it – with complete faith and conviction.

Growing up in the Christian church I heard full conviction speech often. This played into everyone’s story, “we know we are right and so we have to be right.” However, there was an underlying connotation to it which was, “we know we are right and no one else believes as strongly as us because it is not possible.” Suddenly I understood why there could be religious wars. Faith and conviction was not limited to one religion, these young men spoke with the same conviction and glitter in their eyes that up until that moment I thought was limited to one religion.

Everyone has reasons for what they believe, and everyone thinks that everyone else doesn’t have enough information. Atheists are no exception to this rule, science still has a lot of questions to answer but they utilize faith, conviction, and speak with glitter in their eyes with complete conviction that they have the truth. The universe is microcosmic in nature and there is every possibility that our universe was created in the same process that we are creating virtual universes today. To say our universe being created is an impossibility would also be saying creation by humans is impossible, you can’t pick and choose capability and redefine the rules of physics to justify philosophical arguments. The capability for intelligence and creation was latent in the universe before we ever came into existence regardless of the process (evolution or otherwise).

So whether it is the belief or disbelief of God, God is still fundamentally playing the same psychological role as a motivator.

It interesting to note that both Atheists and Theists abuse the God concept in order to get adherents. Theists will say that believing in God will provide you with happiness and ever lasting life. Atheists on the other hand will say that not believing in God will stop all wars and usher in a new age of prosperity that the world has ever known. They both utilize God in some way to express a possible fantasy. This comes back to my idea of Elolight where God represents a powerful motivational entity. So whether it is the belief or disbelief of God, God is still fundamentally playing the same psychological role as that of a motivator. This also plays into the idea that we are striving to be like God and it doesn’t matter if you do or don’t believe, the God concept is still moving you towards an ultimate epitome of humanity.

Where Atheists are most likely right is in the idea of God personality projection. Before Judaism, paganism was very common. All Gods had identifiable human like traits. Judaism came along and said that God doesn’t have human traits and for the most part can’t be understood in any precise manner. Sure enough humans then got another God character they could relate to in the name of Jesus. Jesus was human, so he could be understood easily and that was something which Judaism did not provide. Despite scripture completely contradicting the traditional christian myth (Luke 10:25-28) many modern day main stream Christianities continue to promote that one must accept and believe Jesus is God in order to obtain eternal life and this idea was in debate up until The First Council of Nicaea.


7 thoughts on “Information, Ignorance, and God Abuse

  1. Rochelle Hawk

    Quite seriously you’re brilliant~ These are many of the thoughts I’ve had myself but I never could have tied it all together or expressed it so well. It’s my on going thought that everyone seems to go out and attack others all based on Beliefs- Atheists can’t prove there isn’t a God- they can’t even prove evolution- and Theists can’t prove there is a God… and everyone likes to claim who they are-which is also based on their beliefs- is what makes them better than everyone else. …and in my mind we’re all just people.

    1. Jonathan Wagner Post author

      The crux of my ideas revolve around the concept of separate divine neutrality. This is different then agnosticism. Separate Divine neutrality means you look at all ideas regarding belief(s) and extract only the valuable ones that benefit all of humanity. This is in itself puts you into a conflict of belief with all religious fundamentalists who perpetuate an all or nothing philosophy in regards to their various religions. However, fundamentalists are usually a lost cause and are unmovable so debating or fighting with them should just be avoided anyways. While I understand why people may believe in a belief, for the most part, I reject the majority of main stream religions.

      I am simply voicing an opinion that I know many share and that is the idea that the true value of humanity is in humanity and our future progression.

  2. Allallt

    Can I ask, as I am an atheist, what beliefs I am convinced of? I ask because there are definition beliefs in theism: at least 1 God exists (and then different theisms will get more precise. Christians believes there is 1 God manifest in at least 2 ways. Muslims believes there is only 1 God).
    But as an atheist there is not definitional belief I have to hold. I don’t have to believe there is not God, just to be unconvinced of a God (this is different from being convinced of no god, by the way). I can have no belief about the origins of the universe–“I don’t know”–and that is consistent with being an atheist without saying God doesn’t exist (or even that God didn’t do it).

    1. Jonathan Wagner Post author

      I am well aware of the fact that there is varying degrees of atheism. I am also aware that certain atheists are starting to express the idea that agnosticism is weak atheism, this is a fallacious modification to the definition to procure more adherents. If you don’t believe in God you’re an atheist, if you don’t know you’re agnostic. The common argument by atheists is that a-gnostic means to be anti-gnostic, but agnostic, like many words has changed in meaning with time and no longer means this, they lie about its definition so that like other similar groups (religions) they can grow larger. So right off the bat if you lack conviction about the existence of God you’re not an atheist at all. There is value in being atheist however, and that is you can fit in with a group of like minded atheists. This is really the core value of many belief groups.

      From Webster on Agnosticism:
      a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

      a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
      b : the doctrine that there is no deity

      However, if you wish to adhere to the current doctrine atheists are preaching and truly believe you are a weak atheist, I can say this. I am not really talking about weak atheists, I am talking about the conviction of strong atheists. In the same way that the religious weak would not talk with complete conviction nor would a weak atheist. I am talking about the Dawkins of the world who are expressing that Atheists should be “militant”, if you don’t hold these views, that’s great, but that is not what is happening with the rest of the Atheist base.

      1. Allallt

        There is nothing incompatible about atheism with either agnosticism or gnosticism.
        I don’t know whether or not there is a God. But I don’t believe. I am an agnostic atheist. The idea that the words are in some way mutually exclusive is a nonsense so that it can be asserted that atheists believe there is no god. That is distinctly different from non-belief or unbelief.

        But as our disagreement is a definitional one, where you are defining atheists as those who believe ‘there is not God’, I suppose this conversation doesn’t go any further.

        However, if you could have a look at my blog ( and tell me if you think I am agnostic or atheist. If I am the latter, you may want to try running with a different working definition of atheism.

  3. Pingback: I Want to Believe – Why Faith is not a « The Dubious Adventures of Xavier George

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